Positive Role Models in Problematic Communities on Social Media
I’m in a group for “Gaming Dads” (I got invited by a friend, despite only being half-qualified) and the stuff men share and ask for support with is often unexpectedly vulnerable, heartbreaking, and emotional. These men don’t fall into the tropes of toxic masculinity. Simultaneously, they exist in this space where it’s difficult to know their identity (online gaming communities).
They’re heterosexual men with children doing their best to navigate the 2020’s and do what’s best for their kids. There are few role models in their field of view because of the bubbles they move in and the limited amount of time they have to seek them out.
The support-seekers are generally excellent human beings and I’ve tried my best as a non-parent to help when I think I can.
If you think you’d be interested in joining this group and adding to the positive forces in the discussions there, please do.
(I’m going to comment below about some not-so-great other sides of this group. I’d like to shift the balance away from those people if I can.)
The DNA Test
Today, someone posted a question asking for advice after finding out that his ex-wife of two years has a child he didn’t know about who’s about 15 months old. The math is fuzzy, but he believes there’s at least a chance that he could be the father. He wants to get a DNA test to find out but wasn’t sure if he should.
I responded that he definitely should, even if the mom doesn’t want him to. Using a court order if he must. Because even if she doesn’t want him to be part of that child’s life, the kid will probably feel differently once they’re able to.
I shared the news story about Bethany finally meeting her dad who had no idea she existed for 40 years to supplement my advice.
The shitty dudes in the group were active in the comments. They mostly focused on:
- “She may not want you involved and you should respect that” (well-intentioned but lacking thought about his feelings or the child’s)
- “don’t poke the bear or she might make you pay child support” (😞😡)
There are a bunch of dads in this group who obviously didn’t want to have kids and just did it to keep their wives, satisfy their family, or get some other sort of social benefit from it.
These are the saddest, most resentful people in the group. They vent about how under appreciated they are. They talk about how they could’ve just ditched their partner when they got pregnant , but they “did the right thing” and thus should be worshipped like saints and not have to do anything else.
This is what our culture does when we put pressure on people to have children. We create these resentful, unloving parents and subject children to their relationships as their primary examples for their own future relationships. And then a cycle of people who want to “do the right thing” continue this generation after generation. It’s incredibly sad.
(Insert my usual disclaimer about how I am _obviously_ not talking about anyone who wants to be a parent and loves it.)
Vasectomies
Another topic that commonly comes up is when a dad has agreed with their partner that they have enough kids and they’re getting a vasectomy.
As anyone paying attention to me knows, I fully support this and usually offer encouragement and share my blog post about my procedure.
Shitty replies in these posts are usually rampant.
- General misinformation about what a vasectomy does. (No, it doesn’t affect our hormones, our sexual performance, or anything else except ability to conceive)
- “You’re not a real man if you can’t impregnate a woman” toxic shit. Then they link to an infowars style website about the “pussification of American men” or something.
- “Birth control is a woman’s job” toxic shit.
- “Don’t do it! I know a guy who got a vasectomy and he died!” or some other incredibly stupid made-up story, or false correlation with an infection or other condition that caused the scary thing to happen.
The dudes who make these original posts are usually already going through with the procedure and looking for encouragement, camaraderie, and support. They’re consulting urologists and their family about all of it. There is zero good reason to discourage them.
The Incel Dad
These are the posts where a married dude is venting about how he hasn’t gotten laid in months/years. A totally fine thing to be upset about and seek support for in a group like this. The original posters for these threads aren’t always the incel types.
If I give advice about this it’s usually one of the following (in no particular order):
- Advice for how to seduce a long term partner who is tired, busy, and “touched out” as I hear many moms talk about. (Usually this involves nothing sexual at all. Stuff like making them feel supported, giving them a night off, building a relaxing environment where they may want to be more physical, etc.) If you watched the How to Design a Sex Room show on Netflix, the episodes with parents all go into this, so I recommend watching that show together sometimes.
- The Dual Control Model of Sexual Response (Kinsey Institute)
- Couples counseling recommendations.
- “Have you talked to your partner about the possibility of opening up your relationship so you can get your needs met elsewhere?” followed up with some examples of gentle ways to dip one’s toe into consensual non-monogamy and advice to be extremely patient and careful about how to communicate this concept to their partner.
- “Maybe y’all should break up” for the situations that seem abusive, bad for the kids, or otherwise irreparable.
One can probably imagine the shitty responses to these.
They generally harbor resentment about getting married at all, having kids, or other things that these dads apparently didn’t want but felt pressured into by their partner, family, or society.
They nearly always display feelings of entitlement to their partner’s body, raising awareness that marital rape is still sadly alive and well in 2022.
Many choose to believe their partners are purposely withholding affection and sex from them to manipulate them somehow. (And to be fair, maybe they are. It’s not like these men are the only ones responsible for toxicity in their relationships.)
Most of them seem to believe that they can trick their partner into having sex with them by doing the exact opposite of what I suggest. They encourage each other to withhold things they bring to the relationship in response. This is pretty much a sure path to a messy divorce/breakup that will be incredibly hard on their kids, so I often try to steer these ships away, no matter how impossible that task seems.
So hopefully y’all can see why I feel there’s some real world disaster-aversion we could do if we added more healthy, emotionally intelligent role models to this group to bolster the positives I see in it.
Leading Horses to Water
Because I’ve walked in problematic male-dominated gaming circles my entire life, I feel like I have a pretty good sense for how much information and how to feed it out to gradually open a mind. We rarely get to the Emily Nagoski book recommendations and peer-reviewed scholarly articles in these conversations, but I have those in my mind when I’m talking.
Usually these conversations are the ones men feel more comfortable with in DMs (which is yet another sad state of the performative masculinity thing). In comments, I’m trying to offer a different perspective from the lowest possible hanging fruit of “bro you’re totally right, what a bitch” narrative.
If you feel like you can blend into this group and provide positive engagement and advice there, and have the motivation to help them out, please do. There are definitely good guys in there watching what we say.
Conversation
One close friend added some feedback:
This is really interesting to read. I’ve always wondered if dads had the same outlet to vent that women do. Some of these mom groups I’m a part of are brutal. Now that I’m seeing the other side to it, it’s crystal clear that both parties are really struggling and need professional insight to help them communicate what it is they really need from each other. There’s so many layers and so much unlearning that needs to happen.
Anonymous
The sex thing really really bothers me though. There are countless threads by women, particularly mothers to little ones, constantly feeling pressured/forced to have sex with their partner. No one should ever feel that way. I get everyone has needs, but I’ll be the first one to say feeling touched out, especially if you’re breastfeeding, is a very real feeling.
Parenting is fucking hard. Plain and simple. It’s beyond exhausting and if there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that it takes a partnership and a shitload of communication.
I have 9000 points I want to make right now, but typing it out on social media doesn’t feel effective.
Thank you for sharing this. It’s super interesting!
I’m usually in groups where women talk about stuff like this all the time, so this particular group has really been insightful to me about the men’s side of things.
Much of it is totally valid calls for support, but because the public discussion of these topics tends to automatically turn into “What a horrible person you are” for many if these men who haven’t spent a decade or more reading books about communication and going to therapy. They don’t know how to diplomatically express themselves and get help, so they can only do it in these smaller private groups online. And those spaces can easily turn into 4chan if no one shows up to set positive examples in there.