Positive Role Models in Problematic Communities on Social Media

I’m in a group for “Gaming Dads” (I got invited by a friend, despite only being half-qualified) and the stuff men share and ask for support with is often unexpectedly vulnerable, heartbreaking, and emotional. These men don’t fall into the tropes of toxic masculinity. Simultaneously, they exist in this space where it’s difficult to know their identity (online gaming communities).

They’re heterosexual men — if any are gay, they’re not out about it there — with children doing their best to navigate the 2020’s and do what’s best for their kids. There are few role models in their field of view because of the bubbles they move in and the limited amount of time they have to seek them out.

Support-seekers are generally excellent human beings and I’ve tried my best as a non-parent to help when I think I can.

(I’m going to comment below about some not-so-great other sides of this group. I’d like to shift the balance away from those people if I can.)

The DNA Test

Today, someone posted a question asking for advice after finding out that his ex-wife of two years has a child he didn’t know about who’s about 15 months old. The math is fuzzy, but he believes there’s at least a chance that he could be the father. He wants to get a DNA test to find out but wasn’t sure if he should.

I responded that he definitely should, even if the mom doesn’t want him to. Using a court order if he must. Because even if his ex doesn’t want him to be part of that child’s life, the kid will probably feel differently once they’re old enough.

I shared the news story about Bethany finally meeting her dad who had no idea she existed for 40 years to supplement my advice.

Toxic Group Responses

The shitty dudes in the group were active in the comments. They mostly focused on:

“don’t poke the bear or she might make you pay child support” (😞😡)
“She may not want you involved and you should respect that” (well-intentioned but lacking thought about his feelings or the child’s)

The Coerced Parent

They vent about how under appreciated they are. They talk about how they could’ve just ditched their partner when they got pregnant, but they “did the right thing” and stuck around. Which is great until we inevitably get to the part where they think they should be worshipped like saints for not abandoning their family. And they often feel no obligation to do anything else to support them.

This is what our culture does when we put pressure on people to have children. We create these resentful, unloving parents and subject children to their relationships as their primary examples for their own future relationships. Then a cycle of people who want to “do the right thing” continue this generation after generation. It’s incredibly sad.

I am _obviously_ not talking about anyone who wants to be a parent and loves it.

Vasectomies

Another topic that commonly comes up is when a dad has agreed with their partner that they have enough kids and they’re getting a vasectomy. As anyone paying attention expects, I fully support this and share my blog post about my procedure.

Shitty replies in these posts are usually rampant.

Toxic Group Responses

“Don’t do it! I know a guy who got a vasectomy and he died!” or some other incredibly dubious made-up story. Or a false correlation with an infection or other condition that caused the scary thing to happen.
General misinformation about what a vasectomy does. (No, it doesn’t affect our hormones, our sexual performance, or anything else except ability to conceive)
“You’re not a real man if you can’t impregnate a woman” toxic shit. Then they link to an Infowars style website about the “pussification of American men” or something.
“Birth control is the woman’s job” toxic shit.

The dudes who make these original posts are usually already going through with the procedure. They’re looking for encouragement, camaraderie, and support. They’re consulting urologists and their family about all of it. There is zero good reason to discourage them.

The Incel Dad

These are the posts where a married dude is venting about how he hasn’t gotten laid in months/years. A totally fine thing to be upset about and seek support for in a group like this. The original posters for these threads aren’t always the incel types.

If I give advice about this it’s usually one of the following (in no particular order):

How to Seduce a Long Term Partner

How can we re-ignite the spark with a partner who’s tired, busy, and “touched out” as I hear many moms talk about. Usually this involves nothing sexual at all. Stuff like making them feel supported, giving them a night off, and building a relaxing environment.

How to Design a Sex Room on Netflix has episodes with parents that talk about these things. I recommend watching that show together sometimes.

The Dual Control Model of Sexual Response (Kinsey Institute)

Couples counseling

Almost everyone in the peanut gallery is against this recommendation, but the people truly looking to try anything that’ll help will quietly consider it. (according to my DMs)

Opening Up

“Have you talked to your partner about the possibility of opening up your relationship so you can get your needs met elsewhere?” followed up with some examples of gentle ways to dip one’s toe into consensual non-monogamy and advice to be extremely patient and careful about how to communicate this concept to their partner.

Maybe y’all should break up?

For situations that seem abusive, bad for the kids, or otherwise irreparable. This suggestion could also work as a way to prevent things from getting worse if cheating is a risk.

Toxic Group Responses

One can probably imagine the shitty responses to these.

They generally harbor resentment about getting married at all, having kids, or other things that these dads apparently didn’t want but felt pressured into by their partner, family, or society.
They nearly always display feelings of entitlement to their partner’s body, raising awareness that marital rape is still sadly alive and well in 2022.
Many choose to believe their partners are purposely withholding affection and sex from them to manipulate them somehow.
- To be fair, maybe they are. It’s not like these men are the only ones responsible for toxicity in their relationships.
Most seem to believe that they can trick their partner into having sex with them by doing the exact opposite of what I suggest. They encourage each other to withhold things they bring to the relationship in response. This is pretty much a sure path to a messy divorce/breakup that will be incredibly hard on their kids, so I often try to steer these ships away, no matter how impossible that task seems.

So hopefully y’all can see why I feel there’s some real world disaster-aversion we could do if we added more healthy, emotionally intelligent role models to this group to bolster the positives I see in it.

Leading Horses to Water

Because I’ve walked in problematic male-dominated gaming circles my entire life, I feel like I have a pretty good sense for how much information and how to feed it out to gradually open a mind. We rarely get to the peer-reviewed scholarly articles and Emily Nagoski book recommendations in these conversations, but I have those in mind when I’m talking.

Usually these conversations are the ones men feel more comfortable with in DMs. Yet another sad state of the performative masculinity thing. In comments, I’m trying to offer a different perspective from the lowest possible hanging fruit of “bro you’re totally right, what a bitch” narrative.

If you feel like you can blend into a group like this and provide positive engagement and advice, please do. There are definitely good guys in there watching what we say.

Conversation

One close friend added some feedback:

This is really interesting to read. I’ve always wondered if dads had the same outlet to vent that women do. Some of these mom groups I’m a part of are brutal. Now that I’m seeing the other side to it, it’s crystal clear that both parties are really struggling and need professional insight to help them communicate what it is they really need from each other. There’s so many layers and so much unlearning that needs to happen.

The sex thing really really bothers me though. There are countless threads by women, particularly mothers to little ones, constantly feeling pressured/forced to have sex with their partner. No one should ever feel that way. I get everyone has needs, but I’ll be the first one to say feeling touched out, especially if you’re breastfeeding, is a very real feeling.

Parenting is fucking hard. Plain and simple. It’s beyond exhausting and if there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that it takes a partnership and a shitload of communication.

I have 9000 points I want to make right now, but typing it out on social media doesn’t feel effective.
Thank you for sharing this. It’s super interesting!
Anonymous

Why These Groups Exist

I’m in groups where women talk about stuff like this all the time. This particular group has been insightful to me about the men’s side of things.

Much of it is totally valid calls for support. It’s hard for men who haven’t gone to therapy and read a bunch of books to navigate their feelings publicly. Public discussions of these topics tend to automatically turn into “What a horrible person you are” for many if them. They don’t know how to diplomatically express themselves and get help, which makes it hard for them to trust feedback.

Am I getting scolded because I’m legitimately doing something wrong or because I’m misunderstood?
People are getting hung up on why my word choices are “problematic” instead of listening to my questions.
Apparently I’m doing everything wrong, so now I feel hurt, insecure, and stuck on where to even start being better.

They can only open themselves up in these smaller private anonymous groups online. And those spaces can easily turn into 4chan if no one shows up to set positive examples.